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Relentless Podcast

Dr. Colin Champ: Question Everything, Play Infinite Games, and Let the Haters Hate

It’s time for episode nine of the Relentless: Real People, Real Results, Real World podcast!

In this episode I welcome in Dr. Colin Champ, aka The Caveman Doctor, radiation oncologist, Relentless Roger and The Caveman Doctor podcast co-host, Misguided Medicine author, MyHealthWire writer, blogger, and unfortunate Pittsburgh Steelers’ fan.



  • Recapping our history of 79 recorded Relentless Roger and the Caveman Doctor podcast episodes.
  • Leveraging wine, good books, stretching, and kung fu movies to snap out of a funk.
  • The book Finite and Infinite Games: it will “blow your mind”. #1 takeaway = goal in life is to avoid playing finite games in favor of large reward infinite games.
  • How the Caveman Doctor relaxes: Bertrand Russell’s A History of Western Philosophy or Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. “Watching kung fu movies puts me in a different world, especially if they involve Shaolin temples.”
  • On questioning things: “I’m not the kind of person who loves to do what you’re supposed to do because you’re supposed to do it. I’m actually the person who more questions narratives. If we’re supposed to do something I want to know why we’re supposed to do it.”
  • On his social circle: “I like to be surrounded by people who challenge me.”
  • Changing his priorities from “fitness” to “health” over the years. “People who don’t make that change, it can be detrimental.”
  • His workout routine: “I don’t go to the gym for 5 days a week for an hour and a half to be as big and muscular as I can to look good for girls. That’s not healthy. That’s being fit to be big or to bodybuild. I’ve never been a jogger – I never saw the health benefit in that. I do run sprints. I go for long walks. I go for hikes all the time. I do martial arts now. Again, it’s more of a whole approach.”
  • On his addition of marital arts: “It’s the only thing I do that when I’m done I’m utterly mentally and physically exhausted.”
  • Still lifting some weights but doing it in a more unstructured manner (versus linear periodization): “I still do weights. I want to push heavy weights around because I think it’s good for you – get your mitochondria pumping, strengthen your bones.”
  • Applying Finite and Infinite Games to fitness:
    • Finite game: “If you’re on some crazy strict diet, you are going to fail it.”
    • Infinite game: Incorporating exercise into your life – using a farther parking spot and walking, taking martial arts, going for hikes, etc.
  • Re-evaluating your activity pyramid: “Going to the gym should be your cherry on top, not the base of your pyramid of activities. That way if I don’t make it to the gym I don’t care because I’ve been active all week. If the gym was my whole activity that would put me in a bad spot.”
  • His motivations for writing Misguided Medicine.
  • Encouraging patients to question their treatment and physicians to have good answers: “I want you questioning me. You should be saying why am I doing this? Everyone’s physician should explain to them why they are doing this…You damn better have those numbers for people.”
  • Using common sense: “Things that make you throw up are probably not good for you. Who thought of you are supposed to workout so hard you throw up?”
  • Possible reasons for overtreatment: “Regret is the hardest thing for humans to deal with. They would much rather do something that causes side effects and barely benefits them than to not do something and miss out on reaping the benefit from that.”
  • Dismay over the evolution of salt intake recommendations: “The recommendations are so far out from what the data shows that it’s actually scary. They put people on these crazy salt restricted diets and their rate of dying went up significantly.”
  • Remaining productive creatively with a full-time, demanding profession.
  • On putting yourself out there: “Haters are gonna hate, and they’re the loudest.”
  • Being comfortable expressing your unique set of opinions and referencing Kevin Kelly’s 1,000 True Fans and Gary Vaynerchuk’s “Smurf It Up” for support.
  • Going from hearing his own podcast voice and questioning its value to seeing fans engaged and taking notes.
  • Seeing his writing motivation go through the roof during the last 2 years of residency and publishing 22 peer reviewed publications (compared to his initial goal of 4), starting his website, and beginning the Relentless Roger and The Caveman Doctor podcast.
  • On sleep: “8 hours a night with rare derivation.” Using tools like LED lights on remote control, no blue lights past sunset, no cable, showering and music/writing before bed, dark bedroom, and Phillip’s blue light for wakeups.
  • Prioritizing sleep no matter what and accepting no excuses: “It makes you organize your life better.”
  • The untapped passions of being an architect or being a barista in Florence.
  • Loving Cahors Bordeaux wine.
Dr. Colin Champ and I at the Ancestral Health Symposium

Dr. Colin Champ and I at the Ancestral Health Symposium

“Question yourself. Question your narrative. Question why you’re doing what you’re doing. Not to the point where it’s detrimental, but in a positive way…That’s how changes happen…
If you’re doing something because you think you’re supposed to but it makes you feel terrible, maybe you need to change it.”


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